Tejas Trainer Program Gains Momentum: Sixth Aircraft Nears Delivery

The Indian Air Force's (IAF) commitment to bolstering its training capabilities with the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas continues to materialize, with the recent sighting of the sixth Tejas trainer at Hindustan Aeronautics Limited's (HAL) production facility.

Images of the Tejas trainer, designated LT 5206, indicate the aircraft is in the final stages of assembly. This marks a significant milestone following the delivery of the first twin-seater trainer (LT 5201) to the IAF in October 2023.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1770772352013369461

These specialized trainers are designed to facilitate smoother pilot transition within IAF squadrons, prior to their assignment to the advanced single-seater Tejas Mk1A fighter.

Notably, an additional trainer, LT 5205, appears ready for delivery and is likely undergoing pre-flight taxi trials. These developments suggest a steady ramp-up of the Tejas trainer program.

The IAF has committed to acquiring 18 LCA Tejas twin-seater trainers. This strategic investment ensures that pilots converting from legacy aircraft will have access to a training platform tailored to the complexities of the Tejas Mk1A.

The growth of the IAF's Tejas trainer fleet underscores India's dedication to achieving self-reliance in pilot training, using its own domestically developed fighter aircraft.

By providing a seamless conversion path, the Tejas trainer will play a pivotal role in preparing a new generation of pilots for the IAF's future fleet of single-seater Tejas Mk1A fighters.

 

[Akshat]

They are still short … but not by the margin that you claim. They were supposed to complete initial order and deliver 2 Mk1A from the new order of 83.

If they can deliver 6 trainers + 2 Mk 1A this year, that will be serious improvement considering HAL. More so, these two are new types and generally first example with these kinds of improvements take much longer. For example, Dassault took nearly 3 years for the first example with some India specific enhancements and nearly five years for the first example with all enhancements. These were enhancements and not a new type. But comparison ends here … Dassault did what they committed.IAF gave them a much longer rope and we paid $1.5B for just the changes.

Buddy, PIB release itself said that 3 mk1a are to be delivered within 36 months of the deal signing. That expired on 3 Feb 2024.

Similarly, Ananthkrishnan, who is considered to be a relatively reliable source by HAL supporters, has said that HAL will work on all 18 trainers after the delivery of first 2 mk1a, which are to be used for certification, and then make more Mk1a.

So please update yourself. As for Dassault, they asked for an amount, and committed a number. And they delivered. HAL asked for an amount and committed a number. Our IAF is still waiting for those.

 

[Akshat]

If I recall exactly hal has to deliver 3 Mk1a and 8 trainer this year!! But if they are delivering 2 mk1a and 6 trainers by this month or next then it's ok but I really hope in the long run they will be able to deliver the remaining 2trainer and 1 Mk1a too!!

Not this year. The date was 3Feb 2024. 36 months officially ended on that day. And they ain’t delivering any mk1a for his financial year as it takes a while for the plane to get inducted. The Tejas trainer was inducted 5 months after the roll out. In mk1a ‘s case, HAL will deliver 2, use them for certification and then make the rest. So these will take a long long time for delivery.

 

[Ashutosh]

Your favorite Ananth has said that HAL is going to make all 18 before Mk1a. And PIB release said 3 mk1a on record. There can be no bigger source for any government related news/information. So you are again exposed lying to defend HAL. Now I hope you understand what exposed means.

And forget 18. Where are the 8+2?

Bro where have HAL said of delivering all trainers before mk1a !?

8+ 2 shall be delivered this year.
+1 mk1a

 

[Akshat]

Bro where have HAL said of delivering all trainers before mk1a !?

8+ 2 shall be delivered this year.
+1 mk1a

PIB has said that 3 mk1a shall be delivered by 03 Feb 2024. Where are those?

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

How are margins low at 22%? Or how is capex high when IAF pays more than enough advance to cover capex and opex for months?

I x ACM clearly said that ADA and HAL are not letting private players enter (AMCA).

The order from govt is that an SPV model with private players should be formed. But private players have flagged concerns such as high costs, lack of expertise etc. As far as I know, ADA and HAL have not been the issue. Where did you get this info?

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

Not this year. The date was 3Feb 2024. 36 months officially ended on that day. And they ain’t delivering any mk1a for his financial year as it takes a while for the plane to get inducted. The Tejas trainer was inducted 5 months after the roll out. In mk1a ‘s case, HAL will deliver 2, use them for certification and then make the rest. So these will take a long long time for delivery.

Dude, delays are normal when it comes to advanced stuff like fighter jets. Brahmos supply to philipines is delayed by few months as well. S400 supply to india is delayed by 2 years. Few months delay is nothing if HAL manages to increase production numbers

 

[Akshat]

Dude, delays are normal when it comes to advanced stuff like fighter jets. Brahmos supply to philipines is delayed by few months as well. S400 supply to india is delayed by 2 years. Few months delay is nothing if HAL manages to increase production numbers

Dassault delivered their jets on time. Reliance was penalized for delaying the ships to Navy by a few months. Their bank guarantees were encashed. So why should delays by HAL be normalized?

 

[Akshat]

The order from govt is that an SPV model with private players should be formed. But private players have flagged concerns such as high costs, lack of expertise etc. As far as I know, ADA and HAL have not been the issue. Where did you get this info?

ACM Bhadoria has said this on record. He said that only one session for discussion was its private players was held. He said ADA and HAL should hold more such sessions and that they have not been held. So if something is their job and it is not being done, whose mistake is it?

 

[GMR]

HAL is steadily improving day by day From 2025/26 it may deliver 16 jets per year.

What??? Pls refer to chronological events of Tejas delivery...

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

Dassault delivered their jets on time. Reliance was penalized for delaying the ships to Navy by a few months. Their bank guarantees were encashed. So why should delays by HAL be normalized?

Because MK1a is the first jet of its class and it has many new components, most of which are indigenous. Cannot compare to rafale, which dassault has been building for years.

Regarding that reliance shipyard, reliance (anil ambani) had boight that shipyard after it had received the orders. But then reliance itself sank and shipyard also sank. The delay was very heavy and not even 1 ship out of 5 was delivered, and 2 more years later when deliverieas still not done, the contract was cancelled.

You cant compare a bankrupt company incapable of making delivery to HAL.

 

[Ashutosh]

PIB has said that 3 mk1a shall be delivered by 03 Feb 2024. Where are those?

They are delaying that . Not gonna deny that.

 

[Akshat]

They are delaying that . Not gonna deny that.

Exactly the point. We can debate the exact number of trainers but in any case they are delaying it massively.

 

[Ashutosh]

The order from govt is that an SPV model with private players should be formed. But private players have flagged concerns such as high costs, lack of expertise etc. As far as I know, ADA and HAL have not been the issue. Where did you get this info?

Bro u shall tell him that ADA has done more than enough individual discussions and even held one large discussion still Pvt. Sector couldn't gather the guts to invest

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

Bro u shall tell him that ADA has done more than enough individual discussions and even held one large discussion still Pvt. Sector couldn't gather the guts to invest

I mean you cant blame private sector also, since they have no prior expertise. If I told you tomorrow that go build me a 5th gen stealth fighter, dont worry I will buy them at 20% premium if you build them. Only HAL has expertise and capacity to build fighter jets in India

 

[Sandeep]

India needs to quickly deliver the first two Tejas MK1A jets so that the Air Force, HAL, ADA can run the tests and certify the advanced technology that they created which will take a while. However, HAL needs to quickly manufacture and deliver more trainers because it takes a number of years to train a pilot and without pilots the jets manufactured will just be grounded.

The government should just give the private sector a free license to manufacture the Tejas jets which will encourage more private participation. Instead of creating the usual confidential tender to ask a company to place a confidential and private bid to manufacture a number of jets and the winner is the company who bids the lowest price this method doesn't allow a company to change their bid amount afterwards they submit their offer.

Instead the government should create a open and public viewable AUCTION where the companies can place a bid and if they want to win the contract and there is a lot of competition then those companies can change their bid to a lower amount. This increases more company competition to the tender and it can drive down the cost even more if they want to win the contract whereas holding a closed tender doesn't allow the company to reduce their bid even more despite having the capacity and financial ability to do so.

Modern defence contracts need to be AUCTIONED and not be a closed and private bid where the company has to achieve a simple L1 status to win the contract.

 

[Akshat]

Because MK1a is the first jet of its class and it has many new components, most of which are indigenous. Cannot compare to rafale, which dassault has been building for years.

Regarding that reliance shipyard, reliance (anil ambani) had boight that shipyard after it had received the orders. But then reliance itself sank and shipyard also sank. The delay was very heavy and not even 1 ship out of 5 was delivered, and 2 more years later when deliverieas still not done, the contract was cancelled.

You cant compare a bankrupt company incapable of making delivery to HAL.

The company was an ongoing concern when the guarantees were encashed. Contract laws apply all the same to any company which is an ongoing concern.

Similarly, it was HAL which signed the deal. So whether it’s a new design or an old one is immaterial. Sole point that matters is that a contract was signed and it was breached. Nothing else matters at all. HAL shall be made to pay liquidation penalties for this delay and that penalty shall not be from the share of the tax payers but from the administration. You cannot take money from one pocket of the government and give it to the other pocket. That’s the whole point.

As for a ‘first jet’, all the changes to mk1a are electronic or additive components. We did that with Rafale as well in the form of ISE. So there is a one to one comparison here.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

ACM Bhadoria has said this on record. He said that only one session for discussion was its private players was held. He said ADA and HAL should hold more such sessions and that they have not been held. So if something is their job and it is not being done, whose mistake is it?

I have seen his interview as well, I dont think he was blaming HAL and ADA. just because more meetings were not held does not mean HAL is blocking it. These kinds of discussions need not only take place in specific large scale meetings. Phone calls etc can also be used to discuss stuff.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

The company was an ongoing concern when the guarantees were encashed. Contract laws apply all the same to any company which is an ongoing concern.

Similarly, it was HAL which signed the deal. So whether it’s a new design or an old one is immaterial. Sole point that matters is that a contract was signed and it was breached. Nothing else matters at all. HAL shall be made to pay liquidation penalties for this delay and that penalty shall not be from the share of the tax payers but from the administration. You cannot take money from one pocket of the government and give it to the other pocket. That’s the whole point.

As for a ‘first jet’, all the changes to mk1a are electronic or additive components. We did that with Rafale as well in the form of ISE. So there is a one to one comparison here.

Are you aware of the contract details that state that if HAL is late by even one day in delivering first mk1a jet they will have to pay penalty? I am not aware of such a clause. If such a clause is there then I am with you in demanding that HAL pay a fine

 

[Akshat]

I have seen his interview as well, I dont think he was blaming HAL and ADA. just because more meetings were not held does not mean HAL is blocking it. These kinds of discussions need not only take place in specific large scale meetings. Phone calls etc can also be used to discuss stuff.

He specifically said that more such sessions are needed and HAL and ADA need to hold those. He very specifically blamed HAL and ADA. By name.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

He specifically said that more such sessions are needed and HAL and ADA need to hold those. He very specifically blamed HAL and ADA. By name.

No he didnt place the blame on HAL and ADA. He said that HAL and ADA had held meeting for it and more meetings are needed. What my point is that concerns are known after the first meeting, and unless those are addressed, future meetings are pointless. Work goes on behind the scenes. These meetings are meant to formalise things when decision is made. You can negotiate a multi billion dollar SPV deal in a 2 hour meeting.