USAF Report Reveals Unexpected Weakness in Pakistan's J-10CEs

Remember how Pakistan got those shiny new J-10CE fighter jets? Well, a leaked report from the US Air Force (USAF) throws some shade on their potential dominance in the sky. Here's the deal:

Pakistan hoped these jets, armed with China's fancy PL-15E missiles, would give them a big advantage over India's air force. The PL-15E boasts a super-long range, supposedly hitting enemy planes from way out. But according to the USAF report, that long range might be a bit of a tall tale.

Turns out, these missiles might not be as powerful as advertised. The report suggests they only reach their top range under very specific conditions, like the fighter jet launching them needing to be flying super fast and super high. Real-world combat situations are messy, so the USAF estimates the missiles' actual effective range is more like 65 miles – not quite the knockout punch Pakistan might have been hoping for.

Here's the kicker: This range is roughly what Pakistan's older F-16s can already achieve with their missiles. So, all that hype about the J-10CEs and PL-15Es giving Pakistan a big edge? The USAF report suggests it might not be that big of a deal after all.

Meanwhile, India's got its own long-range missiles that could potentially outrange the PL-15E according to the report. So, things might be a bit more balanced in the air than Pakistan was hoping for.

 

[NSR]

Criminal chinese ccp and its PLAAF missiles are short on performance and long on hype.
BTW India has a far superior Meteor missile on Rafales.
Perhaps India can procure some of Russian new generation of long range BVRAAMs just in case.
No worries, mates.

Indian Astra Mk II intercept ranges - head on chase range is 130 kms and tail chase is 160 kms.

 

[abhinav srivastava]

Without knowing the results of Chineese a2a missiles India should not be complacent. What if it works?. We should have strategy to have upper hand over them.

 

[sanket]

Astra MK2 Range may b more than 130 kM , same should b applied if Astra MK2 is Fired from Higher Altitude(Above 10 kM) it may also achieve Range over 160 kM.

 

[Sanatani Yodha]

PL15 was never meant to shootdown fighter jets… it is more of a ‘slow moving big targets’ killer like air to air refuller or Awacs…..
In real life combat, getting a high manoeuvre target like a fighter jet beyond 80km is just a fantasy… we have seen how a 20m2 RCS Su30mki dodged a salvo of 4-5 AIM 120c fired by PAF F16s……
We can’t win a war/battle by down playing adversaries… we need to be equipped hard from tooth to tail…. Never let ur guards down…
Develop Astra-2 Astra-3 and Rudram family fast… make Tejas mk1a and mk2 as quick as possible… in real war, such articles will not save the day…..

 

[Rudra]

Without knowing the results of Chineese a2a missiles India should not be complacent. What if it works?. We should have strategy to have upper hand over them.

We will let the Indian Air Force know of your concerns. Funny, how the brains at the Indian Air Force couldn't have thought of that or planned for it.🤣

 

[Sutta Nath Shastri]

Should one believe such obscure internal "USAF Report" at face value? What if CIA colluded to halt our own advanced developments in futuristic BVRAAMs? If this is leaked then the advantage is over. I want to see that report!!

Why believe in such reports? We aren't aatmanirbharta in defence, but at least we should be aatmanirbhar in intelligence assessments & forecasts

If PL-15 can sees a drop of 30%, so would Meteor & Astra on their respective max ranges in real world! Wouldn't they?

 

[Provocateur Extraordinaire]

We will let the Indian Air Force know of your concerns. Funny, how the brains at the Indian Air Force couldn't have thought of that or planned for it.🤣

Any other time I would have gone with your joke but after the balakot fiasco I'm not so sure. There is a big question mark on the competence of IAF fatcats, those at the very top. The rot was first evident with the Ty agi chap. The IAF brass wants nothing short of futuristic wonder weapons big ticket items but could not think ahead of sourcing low expense items like SDR for its existing planes. Abhinandan was shot down because his mig21 did not have it and his legacy radio was jammed and he couldn't heed the ground controller's warning of threats ahead. Then they also did the balakot strike without recording it blaming low cloud cover. Balakot was a deterrent public relations exercise and it's recording was a must. That is why the pa kis can get away with the narrative of few craters and trees felled along with a crow. The shooting down of its own helicopter was another mark of incompetence. The chopper crew did not have their iff transponder on and the ad unit could not understand that a slow flying machine at 250 odd knots on its radar so deep inside its own territory was not a hostile supersonic warplane as they thought. Or did they think pa kis could penentrate deep inside with a lone chopper in that time of heightened war nerves? The mind boggles. Basically the entire sorry spectacle reflects lack of good leadership.

 

[Sandeep]

Should one believe such obscure internal "USAF Report" at face value? What if CIA colluded to halt our own advanced developments in futuristic BVRAAMs? If this is leaked then the advantage is over. I want to see that report!!

Why believe in such reports? We aren't aatmanirbharta in defence, but at least we should be aatmanirbhar in intelligence assessments & forecasts

If PL-15 can sees a drop of 30%, so would Meteor & Astra on their respective max ranges in real world! Wouldn't they?

The truth was already known. All Chinese weapons and technology are never as good as they are advertised. Our 20 year old Sukhoi jets can easily pick out their stealth jets that China claimed were the best so that is further proof. Pakistan has complained about the junk fighter, naval ships and Myanmar has as well. Also with the Meteor and Astra they are reliable and real world proven ranges. India isn't going to stop our own missile development regardless of whatever the CIA says or does as those projects are crucial to our indigenous defence and to cut down on foreign expensive imports.

 

[shivkumar sinha]

Nothing new . I have stated this fact several times about capabilities of PL-15. Some china apologists in this forum will still go by PLA propaganda. Good luck to them.

 

[shivkumar sinha]

Any other time I would have gone with your joke but after the balakot fiasco I'm not so sure. There is a big question mark on the competence of IAF fatcats, those at the very top. The rot was first evident with the Ty agi chap. The IAF brass wants nothing short of futuristic wonder weapons big ticket items but could not think ahead of sourcing low expense items like SDR for its existing planes. Abhinandan was shot down because his mig21 did not have it and his legacy radio was jammed and he couldn't heed the ground controller's warning of threats ahead. Then they also did the balakot strike without recording it blaming low cloud cover. Balakot was a deterrent public relations exercise and it's recording was a must. That is why the pa kis can get away with the narrative of few craters and trees felled along with a crow. The shooting down of its own helicopter was another mark of incompetence. The chopper crew did not have their iff transponder on and the ad unit could not understand that a slow flying machine at 250 odd knots on its radar so deep inside its own territory was not a hostile supersonic warplane as they thought. Or did they think pa kis could penentrate deep inside with a lone chopper in that time of heightened war nerves? The mind boggles. Basically the entire sorry spectacle reflects lack of good leadership.

The moment I saw the word ' Balakot fiasco ' I stopped reading your reply as it was confirmed that you are a sympathiser of p@ ki terrorist @ rmy and badly hurt by the slap on terrorists of Jaish and next day shooting down of a PAF F-16.

 

[Sandeep]

Any other time I would have gone with your joke but after the balakot fiasco I'm not so sure. There is a big question mark on the competence of IAF fatcats, those at the very top. The rot was first evident with the Ty agi chap. The IAF brass wants nothing short of futuristic wonder weapons big ticket items but could not think ahead of sourcing low expense items like SDR for its existing planes. Abhinandan was shot down because his mig21 did not have it and his legacy radio was jammed and he couldn't heed the ground controller's warning of threats ahead. Then they also did the balakot strike without recording it blaming low cloud cover. Balakot was a deterrent public relations exercise and it's recording was a must. That is why the pa kis can get away with the narrative of few craters and trees felled along with a crow. The shooting down of its own helicopter was another mark of incompetence. The chopper crew did not have their iff transponder on and the ad unit could not understand that a slow flying machine at 250 odd knots on its radar so deep inside its own territory was not a hostile supersonic warplane as they thought. Or did they think pa kis could penentrate deep inside with a lone chopper in that time of heightened war nerves? The mind boggles. Basically the entire sorry spectacle reflects lack of good leadership.

To be fair SDR are expensive and those Mig 21 were planned to be retired the next year or two. Just going through the bids, contract, testing, negotiations and price would take a few years unless imported directly at a very expensive price. As for the Air Force wanting expensive jets then that has been tightly controlled by the government and if they think India is going to spend $25 billion on 114 jets then they are even mental. As for video recording the attack then maybe it would of helped but we had their Air Force recording between pilots and controller which clearly highlighted their loss. Then we had satellite imaging of the building showing the destruction as another proof. Then we had the Pakistan army sealing the entire area off and some media journalist even managed to get a few images of their army carrying out a large amount of dead bodies. So the world knew that India launched an attack but the narrative was mainly on how effective or successful was it and the answer is it was. The sad part was that our helicopter was blown up. Mainly down to a lack of discipline in following their procedures, tactics and rules to the letter. The helicopter should of had his IFF on and the base commander should of been aware that they had their own helicopter in the region. But we were ready for a war where officers had their hand on the button to fire at the slightest provocation and the fear of being attacked and killed. The Indian military need to carry out multiple live training exercises and real time exercises to gain experience. These exercises have to be conducted without warning and suddenly so they aren't just treated as a practice.

 

[Sandeep]

It's commonly known, except to a few on this site, that Chinese weapons and technology are never as good or as reliable as they claim it is. All of their exports are a disaster with Pakistan, Myanmar and Nigeria complaining about the jets, tanks, ships, missiles, submarines etc. Their technology has been unreliable, insufficient, poor performance, no consistency, unreliable supply of spares or parts, short lifespan along with poor to little service support.

India has to speed up developing our own weapons and technology along with manufacturing it in India. There is a lot of critical technology that we are behind on which is producing a reliable, fuel efficient, consistent and affordable engine for tanks, IFV, APC, naval ships, fighter jets, helicopter. A lot of our products are still under development, facing delays or going through the usual long phase of testing and the private sector needs to help more in key weapons or technology programs.

 

[Arz786]

The moment I saw the word ' Balakot fiasco ' I stopped reading your reply as it was confirmed that you are a sympathiser of p@ ki terrorist @ rmy and badly hurt by the slap on terrorists of Jaish and next day shooting down of a PAF F-16.

He has offered constructive criticism.

 

[beencensured]

Any other time I would have gone with your joke but after the balakot fiasco I'm not so sure. There is a big question mark on the competence of IAF fatcats, those at the very top. The rot was first evident with the Ty agi chap. The IAF brass wants nothing short of futuristic wonder weapons big ticket items but could not think ahead of sourcing low expense items like SDR for its existing planes. Abhinandan was shot down because his mig21 did not have it and his legacy radio was jammed and he couldn't heed the ground controller's warning of threats ahead. Then they also did the balakot strike without recording it blaming low cloud cover. Balakot was a deterrent public relations exercise and it's recording was a must. That is why the pa kis can get away with the narrative of few craters and trees felled along with a crow. The shooting down of its own helicopter was another mark of incompetence. The chopper crew did not have their iff transponder on and the ad unit could not understand that a slow flying machine at 250 odd knots on its radar so deep inside its own territory was not a hostile supersonic warplane as they thought. Or did they think pa kis could penentrate deep inside with a lone chopper in that time of heightened war nerves? The mind boggles. Basically the entire sorry spectacle reflects lack of good leadership.

The Russian helicopter was identify wrongly by the Isreali radar that was not feed yet Russian helicopter was friend. This was the main reason for shooting down. The other was the pilots having iff on helicopter off which was serious breech, but it could been malfunctioning.

As far as Balakot Pakistan initially admitted more down planes , but changed story,

 

[UKumar]

Without knowing the results of Chineese a2a missiles India should not be complacent. What if it works?. We should have strategy to have upper hand over them.

Also we should continuously develop Astra MK III, and Astra MK IV and Astra MK V etc

 

[CoolJuttji]

Leaked us intelligence reports will be atleast intelligent enough to support American weapons. The fact remains that PAF remains a professional force and knows exactly what it is buying and what it needs to do to keep its edge over its adversaries. Let us not underestimate our adversaries just because they are on the otherside.

 

[Akshat]

To be fair SDR are expensive and those Mig 21 were planned to be retired the next year or two. Just going through the bids, contract, testing, negotiations and price would take a few years unless imported directly at a very expensive price. As for the Air Force wanting expensive jets then that has been tightly controlled by the government and if they think India is going to spend $25 billion on 114 jets then they are even mental. As for video recording the attack then maybe it would of helped but we had their Air Force recording between pilots and controller which clearly highlighted their loss. Then we had satellite imaging of the building showing the destruction as another proof. Then we had the Pakistan army sealing the entire area off and some media journalist even managed to get a few images of their army carrying out a large amount of dead bodies. So the world knew that India launched an attack but the narrative was mainly on how effective or successful was it and the answer is it was. The sad part was that our helicopter was blown up. Mainly down to a lack of discipline in following their procedures, tactics and rules to the letter. The helicopter should of had his IFF on and the base commander should of been aware that they had their own helicopter in the region. But we were ready for a war where officers had their hand on the button to fire at the slightest provocation and the fear of being attacked and killed. The Indian military need to carry out multiple live training exercises and real time exercises to gain experience. These exercises have to be conducted without warning and suddenly so they aren't just treated as a practice.

Anyone thinking that MRFA won’t be ordered are the mental ones. It’s an active tender so the government has officially stamped its approval on the requirement.

As for SDR, they had already been ordered by IAF but the tender process took way too long.

 

[Hita Techi]

PL15 was never meant to shootdown fighter jets… it is more of a ‘slow moving big targets’ killer like air to air refuller or Awacs…..
In real life combat, getting a high manoeuvre target like a fighter jet beyond 80km is just a fantasy… we have seen how a 20m2 RCS Su30mki dodged a salvo of 4-5 AIM 120c fired by PAF F16s……
We can’t win a war/battle by down playing adversaries… we need to be equipped hard from tooth to tail…. Never let ur guards down…
Develop Astra-2 Astra-3 and Rudram family fast… make Tejas mk1a and mk2 as quick as possible… in real war, such articles will not save the day…..

PL-15 is meant for fighters, you must be thinking of the PL 17/21 that is ultra long ranged to hit AWACs and tankers

 

[Hita Techi]

Every missile by every nation has max range and effective range. Max range is only possible at optimal conditions, in actual operation the launch parameters and target nature will affect the missile range drastically.