South Korea and Turkey Make Strides in 5th Generation Fighter Jets Development, India's AMCA Program Lags

[kumar]

It ia difficult to comprehend a point of time where mk1a, II and Amca all will on production line simultaneously when HAL is struggling to extend the rate of 1A only.

Let amca get approved first. The way decision making is done by entire system as a whole, I don't think AMCA will run parallel to tejas.

 

[kumar]

The fund used on mk2 actually enough for amca development. The drdo expanded mk2 project and wasting money in single engine fighter. No stradegic importance in this fighter. Easy improvements and success rate high so aiming that. Ignoring amca and putting iaf in dangerous condition. Ignoring challenges also just happy with. 4th gen fighter. No goovt. Fault. All game by drdo and hal.

Amca requires separate funding. It takes lot of money to build and optimise prototypes. Mk2 prototyping itself was kept pending for want of approval.

 

[Sandeep]

AMCA doesn't look like it's going to reach a 5th generation status completely, unless they can almost completely eliminate external weapon pylons. External weapon pylons, even when empty, are a wonderful way to increase RCS.

They can do the exact same thing and stealth fighters are only useful in carry out stealth attacks in the early stages of a war as after that they lose their value and become similar to a 4.5th generation jet.

 

[kumar]

When private companies with billions of dollars are not coming forward for SPV because they dont want to take risks, we should have gone with PPP model like south Koreans. Atleast we could have started building prototypes. But then, our entire system as a whole have a tendency to take delayed decision. We are Indians only.

 

[Amit]

IAF and armed forces only want foreign maal...HAL/DRDO are slow and typical babu mentality and government doesn't want to spend money plus outside forces and groups wants to disrupt the local industry so I do not have much hope honestly to see AMCA in next 10 years...see it took 10 years and till now no LCA MK2.

 

[Superpower Bharat]

The problem is not the SPV model as the private sector can always just supply the parts and components like they have with Tejas jet. Also the AMCA program hasn't even reached the prototype stage yet but when its time to enter production then there will be more participation from them. What do you expect the private sector to make when the blueprints aren't even ready?

I won't expect it's GOI is expecting..... Main reason for delay

 

[Zhong Brendan]

Only left-hand drive major GDP countries are progressing with producing home-grown fifth gen fighters for now. India, Britain and Japan have programs in the works but not yet in any frutition yet.

 

[amerjit johal]

Only left-hand drive major GDP countries are progressing with producing home-grown fifth gen fighters for now. India, Britain and Japan have programs in the works but not yet in any frutition yet.

Tempest programme UK Japan Italy is for 6th gen.
Those countries don't need 5th gen as they are buying F 35.

 

[amerjit johal]

What is stopping us from getting project consultants from BAe RR etc.
In fact AMCA project should not have even started without these external consultants.

 

[amerjit johal]

One thing no one should forget that Turkey get knowledge from F-35 program and consultancy from BAE .. KFX get help from Lockheed... India is doing alone... GOI must stop this SPV model... No one will come.. sanction the fund let DRDO and hal do the job

The only Tier 1 foreign partner for the F35 is BAe.
Both BAe and RR offered to act as conultants. Had we roped them in 2010.
I am sure AMCA would now be flying.

I fear AMCA is going to die a slow death.

 

[MANIVANNAN N]

Mk2 funding(approval) was delayed by goi.

No.

 

[amerjit johal]

Turkey has very limited access to advanced Western tech. They were NOT even a Partner re F 35 programme.
Everyone is making excuses for DRDO etc fukkk up.

 

[Sandeep]

No, that's the Chinese deception. It's deliberately kept radar signature during peace time. In combat, expect surprises. Chinese are not fools either. Whoever underestimated our enemies ended up like our forefathers who charged straight to cannon fire.

No this was during the recent border skirmish when they were flying combat ready air patrols with ready to fire weapons. Also their engine still emit IR heat discharge which makes it easier to track them. The Chinese norm is to overstate their military true capabilities and weapons but they have all underperformed, it’s defective, unreliable, faulty etc. Every country who bought weapons or technology like submarines, frigates, tanks, fighter jets etc all countries have complained about it including Pakistan.

 

[kumar]

No.

Yes, by 6 months at the least.

 

[Sandeep]

Yes, by 6 months at the least.

The funding hasn’t been delayed because we still have to complete financial negotiations with GE for the F414 engine and without it how can they make a jet without an engine. All funding has been allocated ASAP so there won’t be any problems as soon as the deal is signed.

 

[Sandeep]

I won't expect it's GOI is expecting..... Main reason for delay

No it’s not the government as they have cleared the technology requirements but can’t manufacture which will continue

 

[Sandeep]

What is stopping us from getting project consultants from BAe RR etc.
In fact AMCA project should not have even started without these external consultants.

The problem is that it will be too expensive to use them as consultants but you never get a complete indigenous jet or technology as they will always try and including their own equipment and technology

 

[Anant]

They can do the exact same thing and stealth fighters are only useful in carry out stealth attacks in the early stages of a war as after that they lose their value and become similar to a 4.5th generation jet.

No, they are still relevant alright. In cases where you have a contested airspace, the main advantage you would have from stealth fighters would be for them to act as a networking point to guide munitions and the like launched from non-stealth fighters.

Do consider that this is part of US doctrine: The F-35 has limited internal weapons capacity. Hence, a bunch of 4.5th generation aircraft would launch weapons from stand-off ranges (where the danger to them would be lesser) and the F-35 would then act as a networking hub to lead those munitions closer to the target, ultimately ceding control to the weapons' own internal guidance systems.

Most wars have a contested airspace. Look no further than Russia's abortive invasion of Ukraine. In such scenarios, assuming that your 5th generation aircraft have a relatively low chance of being detected, they would act as excellent munitions networking and guiding hubs in contested airspace and save you the potential loss of a bunch of 4.5th generation and older aircraft.

 

[NSR]

The funding hasn’t been delayed because we still have to complete financial negotiations with GE for the F414 engine and without it how can they make a jet without an engine. All funding has been allocated ASAP so there won’t be any problems as soon as the deal is signed.

India already has 10+ GE F414 engines in inventory.
These are 80% TOT and local manufacturing negotiations.

 

[kumar]

The funding hasn’t been delayed because we still have to complete financial negotiations with GE for the F414 engine and without it how can they make a jet without an engine. All funding has been allocated ASAP so there won’t be any problems as soon as the deal is signed.

We have gef414 engines for r&d. What was not done, was deal for local production of f414 engines which was concluded later.