South Korea and Turkey Make Strides in 5th Generation Fighter Jets Development, India's AMCA Program Lags

[Frank]

you must be day dreaming. as high IQ students they are not hanging out they all fly away and do mundane thiings in lala land

their fees are paid by tax payers

 

[Sandeep]

One thing no one should forget that Turkey get knowledge from F-35 program and consultancy from BAE .. KFX get help from Lockheed... India is doing alone... GOI must stop this SPV model... No one will come.. sanction the fund let DRDO and hal do the job

The problem is not the SPV model as the private sector can always just supply the parts and components like they have with Tejas jet. Also the AMCA program hasn't even reached the prototype stage yet but when its time to enter production then there will be more participation from them. What do you expect the private sector to make when the blueprints aren't even ready?

 

[Sandeep]

Though we probably lack the technical knowhow to develop fighter aircrafts on our own the main issue is indecision by the government no matter which party is in power. Without timely backing and will almost all our defense programs are delayed.

We don't lack the technical know how as designing a jet on paper is easier than making it. The government has always been clear which is that the AMCA can only progress when they conclude the F414 engine negotiations. Also the program hasn't reached the prototype stage yet which should be in a few years.

 

[Sandeep]

Better we ink deal to make India specific F-35s or Su-57 here in India under MRFA it will help ADA/HAL to reduce gestation period of AMCA !

NOBODY IS OFFERING AND NOBODY IS BUYING IT SO COME BACK TO REALITY AND AWAY FROM YOUR DELUSIONS!

 

[Sami Smith]

Sleep well IAF... Sleep well netas...

 

[Sandeep]

The problem is that here in India, we have no concept of iterative development. The armed forces and the MoD all want the baby to start sprinting within a few days of birth.

For AMCA specifically, the PMO is to blame as the file for funding approval has been gathering dust for 2 years now.

You can't build a prototype if they haven't concluded negotiations for the F414 engines. Also if DRDO haven't developed the technology and equipment yet then how is the PMO to blame?

 

[Sandeep]

AMCA has been tabled for approval long back, yet no action taken place.

They haven't concluded the F414 engine negotiations with the USA so how can they build a jet with no engines?

 

[Sandeep]

National importance? What is that? We are happy with upgrading Tejas to mk2. We will put huge fund in mk2 and enjoy by cheating government.

How is the government cheating? Developing Tejas MK1A and MK2 was necessary because thanks to your corrupt jihadi government we hardly had any jets to fly at all and wasted 10 years and still did nothing. Do you call that national importance?

 

[Sandeep]

This article is complete rubbish. The AMCA program can only proceed when they have finished negotiations with the USA for the F414 engine which the first 2 squadrons will use. After that we have signed a deal with Safran to design and develop a brand new engine which gives India 100% of the technology, local production and IPR to sell to whoever we want to.

The only way that turkey or South Korea managed to develop a stealth jet so quickly is because most of the technology, parts and equipment have been imported from the USA and Europe which has also been helping them as project consultants. So in reality their jets isn't a exclusive indigenous jet but it's a primarily imported jet. As turkey is a member of NATO it has a lot of access to advanced technology from the USA and Europe. South Korea is another close ally which also gets a lot of support.

India is developing everything by itself with no help or aid so other than the engine the jet is indigenously developed in India which is better as it grows our military industry as well. The AMCA will produce a 5.5th generation jet when it enters production and not a 5th generation jet like they have copied.

Also how is it the government fault? The government aren't scientists and if DRDO aren't ready with the technology and equipment then how do you expect the government to magically make a stealth jet?

 

[Anant]

IAF is betting on Rafale and Rafale M. If IAF purchase this in high number then there won't remains enough fund to drive AMCA and ORCA-TEDBF program. These program will be delay then IAF will again look for new foreign Jet.. Cycle continues.

Do remember that we cannot just sit around and wait for indigenous fighters indefinitely.

Like it or not, we are at a point where a major modernisation is needed, and the Tejas Mk 1A / Mk 2 are not a one size fits all solution.

Indigenous development is important, but we are lagging behind badly. We really are not in a position where we can switch from a place where we operate foreign aircraft almost exclusively to a place where we have only indigenous aircraft. That journey takes two or three generations, not one.

 

[Anant]

The AMCA program can only proceed when they have finished negotiations with the USA for the F414 engine which the first 2 squadrons will use. After that we have signed a deal with Safran to design and develop a brand new engine which gives India 100% of the technology, local production and IPR to sell to whoever we want to.

AMCA doesn't look like it's going to reach a 5th generation status completely, unless they can almost completely eliminate external weapon pylons. External weapon pylons, even when empty, are a wonderful way to increase RCS. For instance, the KF-21 and F-35 have detachable pylons, and when detached, there is very little on the underside of the wings sticking out to reflect RCS. Are we even planning on doing that?

No, AMCA will be, at best, a 5th generation fighter with some elements of networked combat. It is not going to be a 5.5th generation fighter in its present form.

 

[Sandeep]

No wonder we were under foreign occupation for close to 1000 years.

We need a authoritative B J P government if we are serious about developing a country for Hindus and the religion.

 

[BnglrTester]

We first lost to China then thought about not making pressure cooker in ordnance factories. After Kargil war we woke up to demand of jets and helicopters which can operate in Himalayas.

I was alarmed when Gen. naravane started thinking about supply chains, chin-pak collusion etc when there is a standoff and he had to take decision. Isn't this what career military professionals are supposed to do in peace time. Shouldn't they alter the procurement and safe guard supply chains. The enemy knows your weakness and will strike when you are least prepared.
I pity this people. Neither the military nor the civilian government knows what to do. Sometimes I think our greatest weakness is democracy.

 

[Sandeep]

India should have given green light to Tejas Mk 2 and AMCA right after Tejas IA FOC because India signed contract for 99 GE F-414INS6 engines about a decade ago with about 50-60% TOT.

India have already given permission for Tejas MK2 jets ages ago.

The AMCA program can only proceed when they have finished negotiations with the USA for the F414 engine which the first 2 squadrons will use. After that we have signed a deal with Safran to design and develop a brand new engine which gives India 100% of the technology, local production and IPR to sell to whoever we want to. So your information is wrong when you say the F414 engine deal was made a decade ago because they haven't finished the price negotiations at all.

The only way that turkey or South Korea managed to develop a stealth jet so quickly is because most of the technology, parts and equipment have been imported from the USA and Europe which has also been helping them as project consultants. So in reality their jets isn't a exclusive indigenous jet but it's a primarily imported jet. As turkey is a member of NATO it has a lot of access to advanced technology from the USA and Europe. South Korea is another close ally which also gets a lot of support.

India is developing everything by itself with no help or aid so other than the engine the jet is indigenously developed in India which is better as it grows our military industry as well. The AMCA will produce a 5.5th generation jet when it enters production and not a 5th generation jet like they have copied.

 

[Sandeep]

I don't think Chinese 5th gen fighters are a great concern.

The Chinese jets are not actual stealth jet fighters as we can still pick up on their radar and IR signatures on our Sukhoi and Rafale jets. We also have our own SAM defence network like Akash, MR-SAM and the S400 systems deployed so with a combination of all of these systems we have a good defence cover.

 

[BnglrTester]

we can still pick up on their radar and IR signatures on our Sukhoi and Rafale jets.

No, that's the Chinese deception. It's deliberately kept radar signature during peace time. In combat, expect surprises. Chinese are not fools either. Whoever underestimated our enemies ended up like our forefathers who charged straight to cannon fire.

 

[Varaaah]

India has a problem with deciding what should be done with priority and become a national project.

 

[kumar]

India have already given permission for Tejas MK2 jets ages ago.

Mk2 funding(approval) was delayed by goi.

 

[kumar]

Current government is also doing the same mistake, funding issues, no clear cut direction, similar nations like South Korea , Turkey is marching ahead , and here we are just talking and talking.

When there are problems in the system, buck stops at government to give the needed push. Otherwise, we will be running around in circles because nobody will be ready to take risks where huge finances are involved. If required, we need to cut foreign aid for a year and put money where our mouth is.

 

[kumar]

Meanwhile for HAL babus it's business as usual - no urgency - 9am to 5pm interspersed with breaks - tea 9.30am - coffee 11am - lunch 12.30 to 1.30pm - noon tea 2.30pm - noon coffee 4pm!

What has HAL got to do with AMCA r&d.