DRDO to Develop Lighter ATAGS Variant for Enhanced Battlefield Mobility

In a boost to India's artillery modernization efforts, the Armament Research and Development Establishment (ARDE), a laboratory under the Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO), has begun work on a lighter variant of the Advanced Towed Artillery Gun System (ATAGS).

This new version of the 155mm/52 calibre howitzer is designed to meet the Indian Army's specific requirements for a next-generation Towed Gun System (TGS) weighing under 15 tons.

The original ATAGS, already acknowledged for its firepower and battlefield performance, faced operational limitations due to its weight of approximately 18 tons. Recognizing the need for improved mobility and deployment, DRDO is developing a lighter variant to fulfill the army's stipulated specifications.

This new iteration of the ATAGS will retain its core firepower and reliability but will also undergo technological upgrades to enhance its overall capabilities. DRDO's primary objective is to deliver a Towed Gun System that seamlessly aligns with the Indian Army's need for rapid deployment across diverse terrains.

The Indian Army has placed an initial order for 400 next-generation Towed Gun Systems, highlighting the crucial need to upgrade its artillery forces to meet emerging security challenges.

While they intend to procure 307 units of the current ATAGS, the weight restrictions necessitate a lighter variant to complete the order and address potential future needs.

The projected demand for Towed Gun Systems could reach as high as 1200 units, presenting a significant opportunity for India's domestic defence industry.

The lighter ATAGS variant will compete with other contenders, such as the Adani-Elbit ATMOS howitzers, emphasizing the critical need for technologically superior solutions in the competitive defence procurement landscape.

 

[Ashutosh]

You can dig a hole, and put the gun in it and use camo covering to hide.

If that is not possible you station SAM or AA gun systems nearby for protection.

Hiding from drones and LM is paramount. These can hit you even if you are moving. I have seen what happens if a moving heavy vehicle is with a drone, the truck overturns or crashes, catches fire, game over.

If you are depending on anti drone systems, then it makes more sense to stay in one place where there is protection. Moving around will kust make you vulnerable.

China has a whole army of drones and LM. many times more than russia

Bro the difference is u need just a camo and maybe u will have a good cover in Ukrainian forests but here do u think digging a hole and using camo is enough to hide the post!? Seriously!? Bro this isn't Krissh happening here that one mask and one coat is enough to hide the obvious.

Surveillance drones nowadays come with heat Sig. Detectors which can be somewhat evaded through dense overhead cover but not in Ladakh.

U can always have mobile ESMs and ECMs and ECCMs with ur MGS.

The point is that u shall not just sit in a position waiting and waiting when you can simply travel to other location and drop some shots.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

Bro the difference is u need just a camo and maybe u will have a good cover in Ukrainian forests but here do u think digging a hole and using camo is enough to hide the post!? Seriously!? Bro this isn't Krissh happening here that one mask and one coat is enough to hide the obvious.

Surveillance drones nowadays come with heat Sig. Detectors which can be somewhat evaded through dense overhead cover but not in Ladakh.

U can always have mobile ESMs and ECMs and ECCMs with ur MGS.

The point is that u shall not just sit in a position waiting and waiting when you can simply travel to other location and drop some shots.

I have already said and given proof that moving may protect you from counter battery fire but it is useless vs drones and LM. Shoot and scoot is useful to hit and run enemy artillery. You can read this wherever shoot and scoot doctrine is being discussed.

Staying fixed a place which has lots of air defence is best answer to drones. If you moving around in open, you are sitting duck.

Placing gun in hole is common practise to protect it from shrapnel of explosion. In a war, you place anythimg which is not moving in a hole if you can.

 

[SK]

It's a good step but I think that IA should consider to invest in:-

1. ATAGS & It's truck mounted version for Western-Border
2. Kalyani-ULH & It's truck mounted version for High-Altitue Warfare
3. IFG & It's truck mounted version for all Purpose usage.

Indian Army should also order additional 200 to 300 K-9 Vajras to insure a qualitative & quantitative Dominance over both PA & PLAGF.

 

[kumar]

Let's grab popcorn and let the entertainment begin. One more round of summer, winter, rainy, etc trials by IA. Wonder when will they start thier extra terrestrial tests.

 

[Amit Ray]

Let's grab popcorn and let the entertainment begin. One more round of summer, winter, rainy, etc trials by IA. Wonder when will they start thier extra terrestrial tests.

Well they can do it in Moon, now that we have Puspak and chandrayaan.

 

[Ashutosh]

I have already said and given proof that moving may protect you from counter battery fire but it is useless vs drones and LM. Shoot and scoot is useful to hit and run enemy artillery. You can read this wherever shoot and scoot doctrine is being discussed.

Staying fixed a place which has lots of air defence is best answer to drones. If you moving around in open, you are sitting duck.

Placing gun in hole is common practise to protect it from shrapnel of explosion. In a war, you place anythimg which is not moving in a hole if you can.

Bro pls enlighten me an appropriate position for digging a hole and set an artilleries there in the Ladakh terrain.
Also pls enlighten me about the overrun positions of Ukrainian artilleries by Russians especially by Armoured vehicle regiments.

 

[Amit Ray]

I have already said and given proof that moving may protect you from counter battery fire but it is useless vs drones and LM. Shoot and scoot is useful to hit and run enemy artillery. You can read this wherever shoot and scoot doctrine is being discussed.

Staying fixed a place which has lots of air defence is best answer to drones. If you moving around in open, you are sitting duck.

Placing gun in hole is common practise to protect it from shrapnel of explosion. In a war, you place anythimg which is not moving in a hole if you can.

Your arguments seem illogical and absurd, if you don't mind.

 

[kumar]

Well they can do it in Moon, now that we have Puspak and chandrayaan.

Then new atags will be overweight considering it cannot be fitted into existing chandrayan. There goes the latest atags down the drain. Incompetent DRDO as usual. We should outsource this project to DARPA.

 

[Sandeep]

No matter what every country develops their own weapons and technology and there will always be pros and cons about it but their military still inducts and uses it. The military has confirmed that they will definitely buy at least 300 ATAGS guns despite it being slightly heavier is the correct decision. To offset that slightly heavier weight all they have to do is buy more powerful trucks with stronger engines instead of a slightly weaker truck which isn't a major problem for the army.

Also it will take about 8-10 years to make all 300 guns and within that time they can easily develop a more lighter gun with better technology and induct it as the ATAGS MK2 variant. At the same time there are many Indian private companies who are or have already developed a variety of modern guns ranging from towed, mounted and self propelled type of guns. All of those guns use different sizes, different calibre and made with different metal compositions which will allow the army a variety of guns that they can choose from which suits their requirements.

Also in the media there has been a lot of speculation that the military will pick and import a foreign gun like the ATHOS but there's no chance at all and it's absolute nonsense. Currently there is a complete ban and embargo on importing any foreign artillery guns which leaves the military with one option which is to decide from any Indian designed, developed and manufactured gun within India. This is the correct policy and plan as it benefits the military which increases its fire power along with the Indian military industry and economy by keeping the money within India rather than making foreign expensive imports which is the policy or the corrupt jihadi party that killed our military research and development since independence in favour of receiving large commissions/bribes to their personal bank accounts.

 

[Sandeep]

Then new atags will be overweight considering it cannot be fitted into existing chandrayan. There goes the latest atags down the drain. Incompetent DRDO as usual. We should outsource this project to DARPA.

The military are going to buy at least 300 ATAGS as it currently is which is slightly heavier and they can just buy more powerful trucks to tow the gun anyway. While manufacturing that first batch they will work and try to develop a lighter version as the ATAGS MK2 and they can buy those guns or any other Indian developed gun from the government or private sector that meet their requirements.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

Bro pls enlighten me an appropriate position for digging a hole and set an artilleries there in the Ladakh terrain.
Also pls enlighten me about the overrun positions of Ukrainian artilleries by Russians especially by Armoured vehicle regiments.

You can look at old videos of kargil war. India was using bofors guns at that time and also dug a hole, and created mud barriers on 3 sides of the hole. This is standard practice.

This kind of towed artillery will be minimum 15-20km away from frontline. Russians have not been able to move that much distance in their armored vehicle formations since the ffirst few weeks of the war. Even large scale assaults today only move few km at a time, at very heavy price.

Look at armeia azerbaijan wars, drones destroyed armenian artillery there as well. Number 1 threat to artillery is from air. Counter battery artlliery fire is overhyped. Same goes for tanks. Tanks are designed keeping in mind fighting other tanks( dense frontal armor, weak armor at back and on top), but now we see that threat for them is also from drones , LM, and ATGMs.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

Your arguments seem illogical and absurd, if you don't mind.

You can look at ukraine war, armenia azerbaijan war and make your own mind.

 

[Ashutosh]

You can look at old videos of kargil war. India was using bofors guns at that time and also dug a hole, and created mud barriers on 3 sides of the hole. This is standard practice.

This kind of towed artillery will be minimum 15-20km away from frontline. Russians have not been able to move that much distance in their armored vehicle formations since the ffirst few weeks of the war. Even large scale assaults today only move few km at a time, at very heavy price.

Look at armeia azerbaijan wars, drones destroyed armenian artillery there as well. Number 1 threat to artillery is from air. Counter battery artlliery fire is overhyped. Same goes for tanks. Tanks are designed keeping in mind fighting other tanks( dense frontal armor, weak armor at back and on top), but now we see that threat for them is also from drones , LM, and ATGMs.

Bro just see what are u doing - said we should go for MGS, but u say permt. artilleries and now u r giving example of 25 years old war!?
Seriously!?
Bro go and see the Armenian Azeri war- perm. artilleries were literally bombed with no chance of survival.

Russia has literally screwed of Ukrainian artilleries if you actually don't know.
Just some footage of Ukrainian propaganda with slava Ukraini is a mere myth. Even worse than ghost of kiev.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

Bro just see what are u doing - said we should go for MGS, but u say permt. artilleries and now u r giving example of 25 years old war!?
Seriously!?
Bro go and see the Armenian Azeri war- perm. artilleries were literally bombed with no chance of survival.

Russia has literally screwed of Ukrainian artilleries if you actually don't know.
Just some footage of Ukrainian propaganda with slava Ukraini is a mere myth. Even worse than ghost of kiev.

I am not looking at ukrainian propaganda.

My argument is that all kinds of artillery is screwed vs drones and LM. whether perm or truck mounted or self propelled. All kinds of artillery are sitting ducks.

Perm artillery (towed) has its advantage that it is cheaper and much lighter. It can be lifted by chinook and placed at strategic locations quickly. You cant do that with MGS.

I dont listen to ukrainian or russian propaganda. I refer to open source material is available online.

 

[Sandeep]

If you look at how ukraine is using artillery, they are not using shoot and scoot at all. They dig a hole, but the SPG or truck mounted system in the hole, cover it with camoflage netting and then fire. I have seen all these videos, and I have looked at the photos on oryx, you can see that some of the destroyed systems were hit while they were being camoflaged in dense foliage. Most were hit out in the open. Number 1 threat to them in future warfare would be from the air, and the priority should be to hide them.

Moving them around wpuld make them more vulnerable to detection lol

The artillery and technology used by Ukraine is very old as they don't have the capability to manufacture more modern and higher calibre advanced artillery guns because they lost them at the start of the war and their manufacturing factories have mostly been destroyed.

So they are stuck with mostly using 105mm or lower calibre guns and they have very few 155mm or 130mm guns left which will rarely be used. As Ukraine can't provide any quick and easy movable trucks to tow the guns or guns that can shoot and scoot then those guns are basically sitting targets. So they have no choice but to hide the guns with camouflage netting or around earth embankments and rarely use the gun so it can't be easily spotted by drones, helicopters or jets.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

The artillery and technology used by Ukraine is very old as they don't have the capability to manufacture more modern and higher calibre advanced artillery guns because they lost them at the start of the war and their manufacturing factories have mostly been destroyed.

So they are stuck with mostly using 105mm or lower calibre guns and they have very few 155mm or 130mm guns left which will rarely be used. As Ukraine can't provide any quick and easy movable trucks to tow the guns or guns that can shoot and scoot then those guns are basically sitting targets. So they have no choice but to hide the guns with camouflage netting or around earth embankments and rarely use the gun so it can't be easily spotted by drones, helicopters or jets.

Ukraine has received a large number of artillery systems from western countries.

Also, i have seen videos of ukraine using self propelled and truck mounted artillery as static artillery(put in hole in the ground and covered with camoflage).

Being in open for any kind of artillery means death.
You can find videos of truck mounted artillery being destroyed by drones while it was moving.

In fact on oryx website, you can see that ukraine has lost much more number of truck mounted and self propelled artillery than static artillery. This shows that moving around in open makes you more vulnerable in today's battlefield.

 

[Jay K Sinhal]

TGS vs MGS, question of survival.

 

[Ashutosh]

I am not looking at ukrainian propaganda.

My argument is that all kinds of artillery is screwed vs drones and LM. whether perm or truck mounted or self propelled. All kinds of artillery are sitting ducks.

Perm artillery (towed) has its advantage that it is cheaper and much lighter. It can be lifted by chinook and placed at strategic locations quickly. You cant do that with MGS.

I dont listen to ukrainian or russian propaganda. I refer to open source material is available online.

U expect Chinooks to airlift these platforms - bro artilleries are in hundreds . How many of them will you airlift!?
Forget that after airlifting then u have to have another transport to drop it.

Simply use the MGS and deploy .....no need to worry about their mobility atleast .

There is a reason why Caesar is more preferable platform then Artilleries used by the French

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

U expect Chinooks to airlift these platforms - bro artilleries are in hundreds . How many of them will you airlift!?
Forget that after airlifting then u have to have another transport to drop it.

Simply use the MGS and deploy .....no need to worry about their mobility atleast .

There is a reason why Caesar is more preferable platform then Artilleries used by the French

India has other requirements for mountainous areas. We need lightweight stuff that is why we purchased American M777. During war, roads are the first to be destroyed. And mountain roads are very very vulnerable, as a landslide can easily make them inoperable. Using chinooks we can deploy them in few hours, rather than days.
Indian army knows its requirements.

French have different requiurements, and caesar artillery matches them well. I am not saying that we dont need truck mounted howitzer, we have huge border, part of which is desert, mountains and plains. we have variety of requirement.

 

[bonito]

Shoot and scoot is overrated. If you look at ukraine, the number 1 threat to artillery is from loitering amunitions and drones, and jets if you have PGM for them. And towed artillery is just as vulnerable to them than SPG and Truck mounted artillery. You can see videos of truck mounted and self propelled artillery being destroyed by drones and LM. On oryx ypu c an see that ukraine has lost more SPG and truck mounted systems than towed artillery.

Ukraine war cannot be taken for any case study. All the highly decorated arms has failed. Even the low rated jugad engineered drones has failed. There is not a single weapon which has been used and failed from both sides. There is always a counter weapon for any weapon.